Don't miss what's happening in Kingwood
People on Kingwood.com are the first to know.
Go to top of page
Close
 
Close
Back
* CONTEST TODAY: 24 Hours Only - Win a $25 Gift Card to Panera Bread!  Ends in 18 hrs Read more »

Excellent book

Excellent book

12»
« Back
This discussion has been locked.
Message Menu
by: Retired_Engineer Active Indicator LED Icon 13 OP 
~ 7 years ago   Oct 29, '16 12:56pm  
@MarT:   Thank you for recommending the book “Hillbilly Elegy: A Memoir of a Family and Culture in Crisis” by JD Vance in a thread a while back.  It is an excellent story about Appalachian hillbillys or "poor white trash" and many of the reasons that they never move out of poverty.  While this was written by a former "poor white trash" guy, he eventually went on to Ohio State University, then Yale Law School.  It was also entertaining with his stories of his family, friends, and his experiences.Previously, I thought poverty (for whites, blacks, etc) was just a matter of lack of money and laziness. While that certainly is the case for many, the poverty "mind-set" prevents them from doing better.   This book helped me understand a bit HOW the poor grow up and WHY they rarely leave poverty behind. As they are born into poverty, they grow up KNOWING that they will never move out of poverty.  They also fully expect that they will either end up in jail or dead at an early age from drugs, alcohol, or violence. The poverty mind-set is passed from one generation to the next.I highlighted so many paragraphs in this book on my Kindle that I thought I was going to run out of memory.  There is also a "Summary Hillbilly Elegy" that cuts through all of the stories and gets to the heart of the subject, but I recommend reading the full book first.I wish every elected politician would read this book.  The government cannot change the poverty mind-set.  The change must come from the people themselves.  Government Welfare only encourages people in poverty to become dependent on the government but remain in the poverty mind-set.    I highly recommend this book! 4951
* Reactions disabled on political threads.
What are your thoughts? Log in or sign up to comment
Replies:
Message Menu
Retired_Engineer Active Indicator LED Icon 13 OP 
~ 7 years ago   Oct 29, '16 1:13pm  
A good example of poverty mind-set was a Reader's Digest article from many years ago (although I didn't understand poverty mind-set back then).  I used to keep the article in my briefcase because it puzzled me so.  I lost the article somewhere along the line. It was about a poor black family that lived in northeast Louisiana. They had several children. EVERYONE in their family was receiving some form of welfare.  The total amount of welfare for this family was in the $60,000/year range.  Now, that money is tax-free so they should be living like someone making around $90,000/year.  However, they were still living in the dirt-floor shack that one of the parents was born in.  As the children got old enough to drive, they purchased nice new cars.  When the mother was asked if the children contributed to the household, she said the boys needed their money for their cars and girlfriends, and the girls needed new clothes, jewelry, and things to attract boyfriends.  None of the family worked since they were getting enough Welfare to live off of.Now I understand that this family was deeply entrenched in the poverty mind-set.  Even though they had sufficient income from Welfare, they still did not break out of poverty. 4951
* Reactions disabled on political threads.
Message Menu
mulmye Active Indicator LED Icon 5
~ 7 years ago   Oct 29, '16 1:15pm  
@RetiredEngineerIndeed an excellent book.  He has also commented that  he writes of the culture he grew up in but suspects that similar processes happen elsewhere.  I can easily how that happens among Native Americans, African Americans and Hispanic Americans.  I posit that equality of resources does not unnecessarily translate to equality of opportunity.  Never mind that resources are rarely equal. 4951
* Reactions disabled on political threads.
Message Menu
ET Active Indicator LED Icon 17
~ 7 years ago   Oct 29, '16 1:39pm  
Long time ago a smart guy told me that if you give people something for nothing it has little value to them. We have been sending resources and people into inner cities and overseas for decades and with very few exceptions the places we try to improved have not progressed one iota. Change has to be worked for and wanted by the people, until that happens we are just making the ever present criminal element rich.
The other reality is our idea of how they should live is not necessarily their idea. 4951
* Reactions disabled on political threads.
Message Menu
MarT Active Indicator LED Icon 9
~ 7 years ago   Oct 29, '16 3:40pm  
@RetiredEngineer
 
I thought it was interesting and eye opening too. It helped me to see another side of the problem. I know that I have viewed the issues simplisticly. I do think that the military can provide the guidance and stability that helps some. His military stories were good. Unfortunately, since 9/11 that experience is also risky.
 
My hubby left home 3 days after his 18th birthday joined the military and didn't look back. It probably saved his life. 4951
* Reactions disabled on political threads.
Message Menu
mulmye Active Indicator LED Icon 5
~ 7 years ago   Oct 29, '16 5:13pm  
@retiredEngineerThat article was a result  from a Sam Donaldson investigative report.  It resulted in the spread of the welfare queen from the city to the rural areas.  The whole family had cognitive and developmental issues. SSA felt pressured to investigate the whole clan and found no deception on their part.  That did not get anywhere the publicity but the situation was cited fast and furiously to lead to some really bad public policy.  To this day SSA requires flagging of families with more than one disability recipients.  Genetics will result in families with multiple disabled individuals.  I'm not good looking or intelligent, neither is my son. 4951
* Reactions disabled on political threads.
Message Menu
mulmye Active Indicator LED Icon 5
~ 7 years ago   Oct 29, '16 5:25pm  
@ETI disagree.  Can we really say that the money spent on HIV in Africa was not valued and did not significantly improve lives?  It requires a condescending thought process to conclude others give little or no value to assistance.  Is it perhaps that it is not being given in a meaningful way?  That is a major discussion in philanthropy.  I am reminded of a poster of an emaciated elderly person, presumably in Africa, opening a CARE package full of Baby Ruth bars. 4951
* Reactions disabled on political threads.
Message Menu
ET Active Indicator LED Icon 17
~ 7 years ago   Oct 29, '16 6:11pm  
@ETI disagree.  Can we really say that the money spent on HIV in Africa was not valued and did not significantly improve lives?  It requires a condescending thought process to conclude others give little or no value to assistance.  Is it perhaps that it is not being given in a meaningful way?  That is a major discussion in philanthropy.  I am reminded of a poster of an emaciated elderly person, presumably in Africa, opening a CARE package full of Baby Ruth bars.
 
@mulmye: You think he got the Caddy Shack reference?  You missed my point, we try to push our way of life on people and until they want it we are just pissing in the wind.
4951
* Reactions disabled on political threads.
Message Menu
mulmye Active Indicator LED Icon 5
~ 7 years ago   Oct 29, '16 6:30pm  
@etIn my own verbose way I was agreeing with you. 4951
* Reactions disabled on political threads.
Message Menu
AuthorMan Active Indicator LED Icon 17
~ 7 years ago   Oct 29, '16 7:55pm  
@MarT:   Thank you for recommending the book “Hillbilly Elegy: A Memoir of a Family and Culture in Crisis” by JD Vance in a thread a while back.  It is an excellent story about Appalachian hillbillys or "poor white trash" and many of the reasons that they never move out of poverty.  While this was written by a former "poor white trash" guy, he eventually went on to Ohio State University, then Yale Law School.  It was also entertaining with his stories of his family, friends, and his experiences.Previously, I thought poverty (for whites, blacks, etc) was just a matter of lack of money and laziness. While that certainly is the case for many, the poverty "mind-set" prevents them from doing better.   This book helped me understand a bit HOW the poor grow up and WHY they rarely leave poverty behind. As they are born into poverty, they grow up KNOWING that they will never move out of poverty.  They also fully expect that they will either end up in jail or dead at an early age from drugs, alcohol, or violence. The poverty mind-set is passed from one generation to the next.I highlighted so many paragraphs in this book on my Kindle that I thought I was going to run out of memory.  There is also a "Summary Hillbilly Elegy" that cuts through all of the stories and gets to the heart of the subject, but I recommend reading the full book first.I wish every elected politician would read this book.  The government cannot change the poverty mind-set.  The change must come from the people themselves.  Government Welfare only encourages people in poverty to become dependent on the government but remain in the poverty mind-set.    I highly recommend this book!
 
@Retired_Engineer: Good catch!
4951
* Reactions disabled on political threads.
Message Menu
ET Active Indicator LED Icon 17
~ 7 years ago   Oct 29, '16 8:39pm  
@etIn my own verbose way I was agreeing with you.
 
@mulmye:
 
Ahh, I was thrown off by the "I disagree" starter. 4951
* Reactions disabled on political threads.
Message Menu
mulmye Active Indicator LED Icon 5
~ 7 years ago   Oct 29, '16 9:27pm  
@ETI can understand that.  Like I said, verbose Am I.  Gratuitous Yoda speak to show I can have fun. 4951
* Reactions disabled on political threads.
Message Menu
Retired_Engineer Active Indicator LED Icon 13 OP 
~ 7 years ago   Oct 30, '16 2:13am  
Long time ago a smart guy told me that if you give people something for nothing it has little value to them. We have been sending resources and people into inner cities and overseas for decades and with very few exceptions the places we try to improved have not progressed one iota. Change has to be worked for and wanted by the people, until that happens we are just making the ever present criminal element rich.
The other reality is our idea of how they should live is not necessarily their idea.
 
@ET:  I've seen this in action.  Right next to the first chemical plant I worked at in south Louisiana, the government built a set of apartments for the poor to live in.  There were maybe 50 units in all.  From seeing it built, I knew they were nice apartments.  The poor that moved into those apartments were primarily black.  I don't know if the tenants were charged anything for rent or utilities.  After working at that chemical plant for 4 years, I was transferred to the companies refinery just a mile or so down the road.  However, I still drove by that housing complex on my way to/from work.  I saw it deteriorate more each year.  Over time, it became a slum with criminals and drug users hanging out in empty apartments.  I don't think it lasted 10 years before the government bulldozed all of the apartments down.  Those people felt no ownership or pride in these nice apartments, so they tore them up.Even though I'm not a religious man, I have read the Bible and feel that there is plenty of great wisdom in it. The part that says "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day.  Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."  I feel that in order to receive welfare, if you are able, you must attend and actively participate in some sort of trade/skills training as a mandatory requirement.  Welfare benefits should also only last so long (maybe 2-3 years/person), then the people must stand on their own feet. Before their welfare runs out, If jobs are not available locally to the people that now have received some trade/skills, then maybe the government should help them move to another area that has a demand for those trades/skills.That points out one of the problems in the book mentioned in the OP.  The people of Appalachia moved into Ohio and other areas because there were good industrial/manufacturing jobs available there at that time. JD Vance's grandfather (Papaw) got a good job at a steel mill.  However, so many people moved into the area, that there weren't enough jobs for everyone.  Also, the economy changed over time and some businesses closed down. The steel mill almost closed down but overseas money kept it afloat, but just barely.  Sometimes people need to move to find jobs.
4951
* Reactions disabled on political threads.
Message Menu
Retired_Engineer Active Indicator LED Icon 13 OP 
~ 7 years ago   Oct 30, '16 2:28am  
@RetiredEngineerIndeed an excellent book.  He has also commented that  he writes of the culture he grew up in but suspects that similar processes happen elsewhere.  I can easily how that happens among Native Americans, African Americans and Hispanic Americans.  I posit that equality of resources does not unnecessarily translate to equality of opportunity.  Never mind that resources are rarely equal.
 
@mulmye: I agree that other races/cultures also suffer from poverty mind-set.  BTW, JD Vance did not use the term "poverty mind-set" but I felt it applied to his experiences and learnings.  In the subsequent Summary book, Vance points out that a person in poverty needs to learn that there are opportunities beyond poverty.  They need good parental figures (or in his case grandparent figures) that didn't let him give up and constantly gave him HOPE if he was willing to work for it.  Once he graduated high school, he still didn't feel like he was prepared to take on an adult life.  He joined the military and they taught him discipline, common-sense, how to manage a checkbook and his finances, and other things that taught him how to be an adult.  From there, he went to Ohio State and then on to Yale Law school.  He was amazed at the cultural differences between himself and most others at Yale Law school.  Most other students came from upper class families and lived completely different lives than he had.  He attended a recruiting dinner for a large law firm and was astounded at the elegance and abundance of food and utensils. He said when he was growing up, they considered going to Cracker Barrel an example of high living!
4951
* Reactions disabled on political threads.
Message Menu
ProblemAgain Active Indicator LED Icon 10
~ 7 years ago   Oct 30, '16 11:32am  
as an example of  mindset, a number of years ago there was a couple who bought an expensive home in an upperclass area complete with original art on the walls etc for cash. when the police finally showed up to arrest the couple for an armored car robbery which filled a storage locker with untraceable cash, they found the original art gone, replaced by velvet elvis paintings and EIGHT hottubs as well as trailerloads of fourwheelers and other toys. you can take the boys and girls out of the trailerpark but it is hard to take the trailerpark out the boys and girls 4951
* Reactions disabled on political threads.
Message Menu
Mrb1 Active Indicator LED Icon 1
~ 7 years ago   Nov 5, '16 7:42pm  
I'm reading the book now. It's very good. Harris County Library System has it in case anyone else in interested in reading.   4951
* Reactions disabled on political threads.
12»
This discussion has been locked.
« Back to Main Page
Views: 3
# Replies: 16

T.A.P.S Home Repair & Remodeling




Primrose School of Atascocita Logo CBD American Shaman Of Kingwood Logo Anthony Electric Co. Logo FullScope Pest Control Logo Anytime Pest Elimination  Logo Warren's Southern Gardens Logo Ann's Teahouse Logo Cruz Tree Service Logo Challenge Soccer Club Logo Yard Birds, Inc. Logo Equinox Outdoor Lighting Logo Kirsch Roofing Logo BB's Tex-Orleans Logo Darst Funeral Home Logo Holy Comforter Lutheran Church Easter Sunday Logo Texas Water & Ice Logo Agape Garage Doors, LLC Logo The Flying Biscuit Cafe Logo
Sponsor an ad Sponsor an Ad »