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Gay marriage?

Gay marriage?

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by: Davester2k Active Indicator LED Icon  OP 
~ 10 years ago   Mar 26, '13 3:26pm  
Hey guys,I thought I'd kick off a thread where we can talk a little bit about the gay marriage stuff going on right now. I don't have much to say right this second, but I've found this interesting, and I want your opinion:Have you noticed that the phrase "come out" has been used more and more lately? Proponents of gay marriage regularly say something like this: "We hope the Supreme Court comes out in favor of gay marriage". Or, "Rob Portman came out in favor of gay marriage yesterday, after his son..." It's interesting, isn't it? It's deliberate, in my opinion. Now, I guess the two most likely viewpoints about this are:1. Gay agenda2. Gay agenda1. being sort of a PC implant into the national discourse, and 2. being more of a persuasive and campaign-like technique.Anyway, I hope they universalize gay marriage. I say, even if being gay is a choice, so what? Either you can change someone from gay to straight, or you can't. If you can't, then leave them be. If you can, ease up on them and let them have their breathing room. Then, you can try to help them.. I also want this to be in the bag, because then we can move on to the numerous other issues we must deal with. All in all, I think gay marriage will make our country a happier one. And you know that happiness begets lots of other good things. 4951
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mm4731 Active Indicator LED Icon 13
~ 10 years ago   Mar 26, '13 3:29pm  
[ Removed By Request. ] 4951
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Davester2k Active Indicator LED Icon  OP 
~ 10 years ago   Mar 26, '13 3:31pm  
I'm pretty sure that is by and large all they want, the court house marriage. 4951
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PedroDePacas Active Indicator LED Icon 16
~ 10 years ago   Mar 26, '13 3:33pm  
I dont care either way if someone marries a blow up doll, a member of the opposite/same sex, or a goat. But there should not be a constitutional amendment for or against- Let the states decide for themselves 4951
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Davester2k Active Indicator LED Icon  OP 
~ 10 years ago   Mar 26, '13 3:33pm  
Seems to me people think one of three things about homosexuality's origin:1. Born that way, can't change it2. Not born that way, something happened,    a. Can change it    b. Can't change it3. Not born that way, nothing happened, choose to do it. 4951
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Davester2k Active Indicator LED Icon  OP 
~ 10 years ago   Mar 26, '13 3:37pm  
See, I don't agree with the idea of leaving it to the states on principle, because suppose they can't help it. Then a whole lot of them aren't being treated fairly! I think they should have the benefit of the doubt, all of them, and so I think it should be federally mandated and therefore universal.Didn't the feds make interracial marriage universal all at once? So, too, civil rights and slavery? Again, I think gays should have the benefit of the doubt. 4951
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BooBear Active Indicator LED Icon 16
~ 10 years ago   Mar 26, '13 4:30pm  
Seems to me people think one of three things about homosexuality's origin:1. Born that way, can't change it2. Not born that way, something happened,    a. Can change it    b. Can't change it3. Not born that way, nothing happened, choose to do it.
 
@Davester2k:
 
I believe it probably all three.
 
I have decided this is a fight I am not going to bother with in my mind. Not for or against a legal union. I do not believe the marriage is recognized by God. But if man wants to allow it, I dont have a problem with it. 4951
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bap Active Indicator LED Icon
~ 10 years ago   Mar 26, '13 4:44pm  
Same here BooBear couldn't have said it better myself.. 4951
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DiverDude Active Indicator LED Icon 15
~ 10 years ago   Mar 26, '13 5:16pm  
I think there are more important things to deal with than this.    SERIOUSLY!   4951
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KellyG Active Indicator LED Icon 3
~ 10 years ago   Mar 26, '13 5:57pm  
The argument that the purpose of marriage is sexual procreation is dumb. We currently don't require that of hetero marriages and if that argument wins, it's scary to think what that has the potential to do to hetero marriages. Do we really want to go down that road? 4951
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ruk72 Active Indicator LED Icon 17
~ 10 years ago   Mar 26, '13 6:01pm  
If youo're not in favor of gay marriage, don't marry a gay person, simple as that...... 4951
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TexINS Active Indicator LED Icon 12
~ 10 years ago   Mar 26, '13 6:28pm  
I'm against gay's marrying. I copied text from Eric Mataxas's speech, pretty much represent my feelings on the subject:"Chuck Colson saw some serious threats to Religious Freedom on the horizon and in 2009 he led the way in drafting the Manhattan Declaration. And please visit ManhattanDeclaration.org and sign that. Because already those distant threats are coming to pass.First of all there is the HHS Mandate. Many people have dismissed this as something to do with contraceptives. But it has nothing to do with contraceptives and everything to do with Religious Freedom.It’s the issue of the government saying to a religious group that whatever you think about these issues means nothing! We are the state and we will force you to pay for contraceptives and abortifacients. We will force you to violate your conscience and your religion — why? Because we can. We have the power and you Catholics are just a backward religious minority.You may know that Josef Stalin in a battle with the Catholic Church once asked: “How many divisions does the Pope have?” It’s an ugly moment in American history when the current Presidential administration is taking a page out of the book of Josef Stalin .When the government bullies a minority, instead of protecting that minority, that is the beginning of the end of America. We protect minorities here. So I, as a non-Catholic who doesn’t share that entire view on contraception, am nonetheless obliged as an American to defend those who have those views! That’s what makes us America. We protect minorities and we protect religious freedom. For all. Once we stop doing that we are no longer America.The second issue of Religious Freedom is the attempt to legally redefine marriage. This has been framed as an issue of expanding a supposed right to marry whomever one chooses, which it is not. It’s about Religious Freedom. So here’s my question to all the legal scholars across America…What about the Religious Freedom of those who dissent on that issue? Will they be forced to stifle their religious feelings on this issue because the state has demanded it? This is not a live and let live issue. If it were, that would be another story. No, if marriage is LEGALLY redefined, it will utterly cripple Religious Freedom in America and it’s already beginning to do that — and NO ONE is even talking about it. Not one of the cable networks ever discusses this.And so what we are seeing on both these issues is the unconstitutional Establishment of a religion, aided and abetted by the state. But it’s a secular religion and a secular orthodoxy. Indeed, it’s a secular fundamentalism — and it says on the subject of marriage there is to be no discussion. The science is settled. It’s the future. And some in the GOP are jumping on the bandwagon. But ladies and gentlemen, whenever someone tells you the science is settled and the debate is over, that’s a sure sign that the debate is NOT OVER, but that they are deathly afraid that the debate might begin.So they want to tell you it’s settled and let’s hurry up and get on the right side of history. But God determines who is on the right side of history, not the mainstream media and not the government.Most of you see the growing state, gobbling up more and more of the free market, and freedom itself. And if Religious Freedom is threatened, it is just the same. These are the twin engines that have made this the greatest country in the history of the world.Finally, let me say that when the government kills Freedom of Religion and faith is pushed out of the public square, it’s not just bad things that happen. It’s that many good things don’t happen."For those so called "Christians" in favor if Gay marriage..Don't even bother to show up at service on sunday. You make a mockery of what He died for. 4951
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TexINS Active Indicator LED Icon 12
~ 10 years ago   Mar 26, '13 6:34pm  
@KellyG Here is a link to answer your question:http://www.ctlibrary.com/ct/2009/july/34.30.htmlMore specifically,"There is one constant in the constantly evolving understanding of marriage, he
says: "In all societies, marriage shapes the rights and obligations of
parenthood. Among us humans, the scholars report, marriage is not primarily a
license to have sex. Nor is it primarily a license to receive benefits or social
recognition. It is primarily a license to have children."
Further, he says, "Marriage says to a child: The man and the woman
whose sexual union made you will also be there to love and raise you. Marriage
says to society as a whole: For every child born, there is a recognized mother
and a father, accountable to the child and to each other."
The argument is nuanced, and goes on to take into account
heterosexual couples who will not or cannot have children. But he grounds
marriage not in two people, but in two communities: the family and the
state.
McGill University law professor Margaret Somerville, in a 2003
brief before Canada's Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights, argued in
much the same way. She says that to form a society, we must create "a
societal-cultural paradigm." This is a constellation of "values, principles,
attitudes, beliefs, and myths" by which a society finds value and meaning, both
individually and collectively.
"Reproduction is the fundamental occurrence on which, ultimately,
the future of human life depends," she says. "That is the primary reason why
marriage is important to society." Thus, it is crucial that societies protect
marriage as a fact and as a symbol, as that institution that fosters human life,
doing so in the context of family and society. "Even if a particular man and
woman cannot or do not want to have a child, their getting married does not
damage this general symbolism.""  4951
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KellyG Active Indicator LED Icon 3
~ 10 years ago   Mar 26, '13 6:40pm  
That's about as wishy washy as it gets! lol
 
If that's the best argument against it there is, we would all be better off just legalizing it across the board and moving on with our lives.
 
Thanks for posting the clarification. 4951
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BooBear Active Indicator LED Icon 16
~ 10 years ago   Mar 26, '13 6:41pm  
Just want to say that if you make a mortgage payment or a car note, dont even bother going to Church on Sunday. Debt is a sin. Especially if you have a FHA loan.
 
A gay marriage or union is not going to affect MY faith. Like mm4731 said, dont force the churches to do it. As far as the govt. Forcing catholic orgs to provide coverage for BC. That is a different argument. 4951
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mm4731 Active Indicator LED Icon 13
~ 10 years ago   Mar 26, '13 7:02pm  
[ Removed By Request. ] 4951
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