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This story sums up the problem with politics in America

This story sums up the problem with politics in America

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by: FoFa Active Indicator LED Icon 17 OP 
~ 8 years ago   Feb 5, '16 8:36am  
Senate Democrats block energy bill in impasse over FlintNow if you limit yourself to taking a side, you don't really see the problem here.LINK 4951
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dac2010 Active Indicator LED Icon 8
~ 8 years ago   Feb 5, '16 8:51am  
So the local gov. up there screws up trying to be cheap and its the Federal governments job to bail them out?  They are the ones that screw things up and they need to fix it, it ain't the tax payers responsibility of all the other states to fix there mess they created.  I feel sorry for the people up there but the Federal government should not be fixing all the states screw ups. 4951
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Maisey1 Active Indicator LED Icon 9
~ 8 years ago   Feb 5, '16 8:56am  
I haven't really been paying much attention to this so maybe it's already been answered, but why don't they just go back to the way they were getting the water to the residents all along? It can't be that hard or expensive to switch back to the Detroit water system, certainly less than $600 million... 4951
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dac2010 Active Indicator LED Icon 8
~ 8 years ago   Feb 5, '16 9:00am  
I haven't really been paying much attention to this so maybe it's already been answered, but why don't they just go back to the way they were getting the water to the residents all along? It can't be that hard or expensive to switch back to the Detroit water system, certainly less than $600 million...
 
@Maisey1: I heard on a news story that they were claiming they need to redo all the city water piping because it contaminated them.
4951
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FoFa Active Indicator LED Icon 17 OP 
~ 8 years ago   Feb 5, '16 9:01am  
but why don't they just go back to the way they were getting the water to the residents all along?
 
@Maisey1: October 16, 2015 FLINT, MI -- Water from Detroit is flowing into Flint again.But it'll be about three weeks before all of the city's pipes are clear of water from the Flint River, city officials said Friday.Now go figure!Basic bottom line as I understand it.The Flint river is so polluted, the water could not be properly decontaminated with the old water treatment plants. So unclean water entered the water supply lines, which are lead. The pollutants left in the water caused the lead to leach out of the pipes, causing lead poisoning. Now they are using Detroit water again, after a small amount of time, it should revert back to what it was before, just don't know how long that will take. BUT as the politicians in the past have put it, NEVER pass up a good crisis when one is available.
4951
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Chrisinkingwood Active Indicator LED Icon 8
~ 8 years ago   Feb 5, '16 9:01am  
Yes it's a problem but it is nothing new. It is the normal operating procedure to add amendments, riders and other add-ons to bills, most of which are totally unrelated to what the bill is about. An energy bill should be about energy issues and sadly for the people of Flint their water problems in my opinion is not energy related.  Both parties are guilty of adding on these unrelated things because it is allowed.  Funding for the Department of Education had nothing to do with HR 1 Disaster Relief Bill in 2011 yet the GOP added that amendment as well as about 100 others including not funding the ACA and allowing the closure of the prison at Guantanamo Bay. Things will only change if the rules are amended. Not going to happen with the foxes guarding the hen house. 4951
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Chrisinkingwood Active Indicator LED Icon 8
~ 8 years ago   Feb 5, '16 9:07am  
So the local gov. up there screws up trying to be cheap and its the Federal governments job to bail them out? They are the ones that screw things up and they need to fix it, it ain't the tax payers responsibility of all the other states to fix there mess they created.
 
@dac2010: So as an example when a hurricane or huge tornado system devastates a region wiping out homes and infrastructure like sources for clean water or  food items it isn't the responsibility of the Federal government to send in FEMA or in any way fund disaster relief?  Why even have a federal government? Let each state fend for themselves?
4951
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FoFa Active Indicator LED Icon 17 OP 
~ 8 years ago   Feb 5, '16 9:09am  
Here is part of the real kicker, the Energy Bill contained provisions for renewable energy development, you know, to fix that whole global warming/climate change thing......So I guess the 100,000 people in flint affected by the water problem takes precedence over the entire world in the dems minds.
 
4951
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dac2010 Active Indicator LED Icon 8
~ 8 years ago   Feb 5, '16 9:11am  

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>> So the local gov. up there screws up trying to be cheap and its the Federal governments job to bail them out? They are the ones that screw things up and they need to fix it, it ain't the tax payers responsibility of all the other states to fix there mess they created.
 
@dac2010: So as an example when a hurricane or huge tornado system devastates a region wiping out homes and infrastructure like sources for clean water or  food items it isn't the responsibility of the Federal government to send in FEMA or in any way fund disaster relief?  Why even have a federal government? Let each state fend for themselves?
 
@Chrisinkingwood: Like I said THEY created this problem, it was not created by a natural disaster.
4951
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dac2010 Active Indicator LED Icon 8
~ 8 years ago   Feb 5, '16 9:21am  
The only involvement the Feds need to be involved in as of now is putting the people that caused this behind bars because they turned a blind eye at every corner knowing that water was not safe.  People need to go to jail on this one. 4951
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MarT Active Indicator LED Icon 9
~ 8 years ago   Feb 5, '16 9:31am  
I agree @dac2010, I don't think it's the Feds responsibility to pay to fix this, this was man made situation.  If  Michigan is overwhelmed and unable to properly respond I think the Feds should step in with temporary measures to protect the people until the responsible entity fixes it.  If they don't have the funds, the Feds can lend it.  4951
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beastmode Active Indicator LED Icon 12
~ 8 years ago   Feb 5, '16 10:31am  

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>> I haven't really been paying much attention to this so maybe it's already been answered, but why don't they just go back to the way they were getting the water to the residents all along? It can't be that hard or expensive to switch back to the Detroit water system, certainly less than $600 million...
 
@Maisey1: I heard on a news story that they were claiming they need to redo all the city water piping because it contaminated them.
 
@dac2010: "The fact of the matter is, the state of Michigan and the
city of Flint don't yet know what they need to do to fix the problem or
how much it will cost," Cornyn said.This is true, they don't know the details of how they will fix it. Replacing all the pipes may not be needed. What they need are subject matter experts. For one, these pipes are not marked well, they don't know the layout, most of the old data is not readable.  Not an issue if they don't have to be dug up so they don't need this funding right now so giving them a blank check or 100's of millions right now is futile. It would also take years to implement so probably not even feasible. Lead water is also fine to bath or shower, just can't drink it from what they are saying. I disagree since showers involve steam and steam gets everywhere but I'm not an expert just something that I would want answered. I just think they are jumping the gun which is how they got into this mess in the first place. Get the best of the best and formulate a real solid plan then move forward on funding. The risk of fraud would also be high with all this money, especially dealing with a poor community. Need some serious watchdog controllers each watching the other for abuse.  
4951
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sweetie Active Indicator LED Icon 11 Forum Moderator
~ 8 years ago   Feb 5, '16 10:43am  
Michigan has a surplus of almost $600 million dollars but the governor doesn't want to use it for Flint. He's
Offered around $10 million but he wants a federal bailout. He doesn't feel it's right to use the states money for Flint. Looks like he doesn't mind using everyone else's money though. They have not come up with any plans yet on how to correct this. 4951
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Retired_Engineer Active Indicator LED Icon 13
~ 8 years ago   Feb 5, '16 11:09am  
This is a local and state issue.  The water from the Flint River was not treated properly and the water slightly corroded the lead pipes interior.  This caused lead to leach into the water.  By switching back to the original water source, the pipes will eventually be safe again.  By treating the water with appropriate chemicals that help coat and neutralize the lead pipes, it will speed the process.This is a typical action by both Congressional parties when they want to "buy" votes.   The only thing they know how to do is throw money at a problem.  This is similar to the "We have to pass the Health care bill in order to understand what's in it" statement, which is one of the most ridiculously stupid comments of the century.There are many water treatment companies that can help neutralize the lead pipes of Flint, MI.  Yes, it may cost millions of $ but I don't think it will be $600Mil.  However, if Congress gives Michigan $600Mil, I guarantee every penny will be spent (or more likely, go into a lot of corrupt pockets).There are probably millions of miles of lead pipes in older cities and homes.  They are safe unless someone does something to disturb them.  If Congress pays for replacing lead pipes in Flint, they should replace ALL lead pipes, which is absurd. 4951
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Retired_Engineer Active Indicator LED Icon 13
~ 8 years ago   Feb 5, '16 11:27am  

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>>
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>> I haven't really been paying much attention to this so maybe it's already been answered, but why don't they just go back to the way they were getting the water to the residents all along? It can't be that hard or expensive to switch back to the Detroit water system, certainly less than $600 million...
 
@Maisey1: I heard on a news story that they were claiming they need to redo all the city water piping because it contaminated them.
 
@dac2010: "The fact of the matter is, the state of Michigan and the
city of Flint don't yet know what they need to do to fix the problem or
how much it will cost," Cornyn said.This is true, they don't know the details of how they will fix it. Replacing all the pipes may not be needed. What they need are subject matter experts. For one, these pipes are not marked well, they don't know the layout, most of the old data is not readable.  Not an issue if they don't have to be dug up so they don't need this funding right now so giving them a blank check or 100's of millions right now is futile. It would also take years to implement so probably not even feasible. Lead water is also fine to bath or shower, just can't drink it from what they are saying. I disagree since showers involve steam and steam gets everywhere but I'm not an expert just something that I would want answered. I just think they are jumping the gun which is how they got into this mess in the first place. Get the best of the best and formulate a real solid plan then move forward on funding. The risk of fraud would also be high with all this money, especially dealing with a poor community. Need some serious watchdog controllers each watching the other for abuse.  
 
@beastmode:  Very true.  If they had used adequate subject matter experts (SME) to properly treat the Flint River water in the beginning, and spent the money to properly neutralize the water, this issue would not have happened.I worked with a couple of water treatment companies over the years to clarify river water, prepare water for boilers, reduce corrosion from steam on steel pipes, etc ,etc.  I'm not a SME, but I know how to find them.
4951
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Retired_Engineer Active Indicator LED Icon 13
~ 8 years ago   Feb 5, '16 11:39am  
Yes it's a problem but it is nothing new. It is the normal operating procedure to add amendments, riders and other add-ons to bills, most of which are totally unrelated to what the bill is about. An energy bill should be about energy issues and sadly for the people of Flint their water problems in my opinion is not energy related.  Both parties are guilty of adding on these unrelated things because it is allowed.  Funding for the Department of Education had nothing to do with HR 1 Disaster Relief Bill in 2011 yet the GOP added that amendment as well as about 100 others including not funding the ACA and allowing the closure of the prison at Guantanamo Bay. Things will only change if the rules are amended. Not going to happen with the foxes guarding the hen house.
 
@Chrisinkingwood:  I agree that they should eliminate "earmarks" unless that are directly related to the original bill.  Senators and Representatives often use earmarks as nothing more than a way to bring Federal money to their home states/districts so they can brag "Look what I did for you" at election time.  I'd prefer that we reduce federal taxes that we send to DC and if WE want to built some "bridge to nowhere", then the state can vote on it or hold our state politicians responsible.
4951
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