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The Pope

The Pope

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by: djohn78 Active Indicator LED Icon 1 OP 
~ 8 years ago   Sep 2, '15 9:34am  
The Pope said priests can absolve the sins of those who had an abortion.
Please tell me where in the Bible it says anyone beyond Christ who can forgive sins? I have never understood this. 4951
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Ashley28 Active Indicator LED Icon 1
~ 8 years ago   Sep 2, '15 9:54am  
Only God can forgive our sins. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit..three in one. The only way to the Father is through Christ who died for our sins and with that came the Holy Spirit who convicts us of our sins and leads us to righteousness. When you are saved/Baptized, you are given the Holy Spirit. The pope is just a man. 4951
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Ashley28 Active Indicator LED Icon 1
~ 8 years ago   Sep 2, '15 9:54am  
Only God can forgive our sins. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit..three in one. The only way to the Father is through Christ who died for our sins and with that came the Holy Spirit who convicts us of our sins and leads us to righteousness. When you are saved/Baptized, you are given the Holy Spirit. The pope is just a man. 4951
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Ashley28 Active Indicator LED Icon 1
~ 8 years ago   Sep 2, '15 9:54am  
Only God can forgive our sins. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit..three in one. The only way to the Father is through Christ who died for our sins and with that came the Holy Spirit who convicts us of our sins and leads us to righteousness. When you are saved/Baptized, you are given the Holy Spirit. The pope is just a man. 4951
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Ashley28 Active Indicator LED Icon 1
~ 8 years ago   Sep 2, '15 9:54am  
Sorry it posted three times. Maybe that wasn't a coincidence LOL 4951
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Ashley28 Active Indicator LED Icon 1
~ 8 years ago   Sep 2, '15 9:57am  
God is the only one we should call Father, and bow down to, and confess our sins to. Not some dude wearing a robe in Vatican City. This really displeases God..and it's backed up by scripture. 4951
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Ashley28 Active Indicator LED Icon 1
~ 8 years ago   Sep 2, '15 10:03am  
Sorry this is long but a good example...
 
Does John 20:23 mean that Catholic priests can forgive sins? No, it does not.
 
"If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained," (John 20:23).
 
Context is king when interpreting Scripture, and this is no exception. Let's take a look.
 
"When therefore it was evening, on that day, the first day of the week, and when the doors were shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in their midst, and said to them, �Peace be with you.� 20 And when He had said this, He showed them both His hands and His side. The disciples therefore rejoiced when they saw the Lord. 21 Jesus therefore said to them again, �Peace be with you; as the Father has sent Me, I also send you.� 22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, �Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 �If you forgive the sins of any, their sins have been forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they have been retained,� (John 20:19-23).
 
The context of John 20:23 is that Jesus was speaking to the disciples (v. 19). He breathed on them to receive the Holy Spirit (v. 22). There is nothing in here about priests having the authority to forgive sins. There is nothing here (or anywhere else in the New Testament) about apostolic succession that says priests have the authority to forgive sins and that it is passed down. The Bible does mention appointing elders (Acts 14:23, Titus 1:5) and that the disciples of Jesus had special authority (Matt. 16:18). It speaks of the laying on of hands to receive the Holy Spirit (Acts 8:19) as well as ordaining men to the ministry (1 Tim. 4:14, 2 Tim. 1:6, Titus 1:5). At best, the laying on of hands deals with ordination, not apostolic authority being passed down. After all, they were ordaining elders and not apostles, and it was the apostles who were given the authority by Christ to do miracles and write Scripture. Nothing is said here about apostolic authority being passed down.
 
Have been forgiven
In John 20:23, the words, "have been forgiven," is the single Greek word aphiami. It is the perfect passive. The perfect tense is "I have been." The pluperfect is "I had been." The perfect tense designates an action that occurs in the past and continues into the present, i.e., "I have been eating." The disciples were not doing the forgiving but pronouncing the sins that "have been" forgiven by God. We find that the Psalmist says, "Help us, O God of our salvation, for the glory of Your name; and deliver us, and forgive our sins, for Your name�s sake," (Psalm 79:9). Also, consider the following:
 
"Jesus seeing their faith said to the paralytic, �My son, your sins are forgiven.� 6 But there were some of the scribes sitting there and reasoning in their hearts, 7Why does this man speak that way? He is blaspheming; who can forgive sins but God alone?� 8 And immediately Jesus, aware in His spirit that they were reasoning that way within themselves, *said to them, �Why are you reasoning about these things in your hearts? 9 �Which is easier, to say to the paralytic, �Your sins are forgiven�; or to say, �Arise, and take up your pallet and walk�? 10 �But in order that you may know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins��He said to the paralytic� 11 �I say to you, rise, take up your pallet and go home.� 12 And he rose and immediately took up the pallet and went out in the sight of all; so that they were all amazed and were glorifying God, saying, �We have never seen anything like this,� (Mark 2:5-12).
 
Jesus forgave sins, and the Scribes, the students of the Law, rightly stated that only God forgives sins. If they were wrong about that, then why didn't Jesus correct them? Instead, He affirms their claim, states He has the authority to forgive sins, and then heals the paralytic. It should be clear that only God forgives sins. Christians, as representatives of Christ, pronounce to people what has already been forgiven them by God.
 
So, John 20:23 is not saying that Catholic priests have the authority to forgive sins. It is saying that Christian disciples have the authority to pronounce what sins "have been forgiven." 4951
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Ashley28 Active Indicator LED Icon 1
~ 8 years ago   Sep 2, '15 10:12am  
"Why does this man speak like that? He is blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?"
 
Mark 2:7 4951
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djohn78 Active Indicator LED Icon 1 OP 
~ 8 years ago   Sep 2, '15 10:54am  
My wife has plenty of Catholic relatives. When we visit we respectfully go to mass with them but it's hard to bite my tongue. 4951
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ProblemAgain Active Indicator LED Icon 10
~ 8 years ago   Sep 2, '15 11:10am  
nothing like a little christian bigotry...my baby jesus is better than your baby jesus....you don't have to attack other people's religion and catholics are just a different flavor of christian. 4951
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Retired_Engineer Active Indicator LED Icon 13
~ 8 years ago   Sep 2, '15 11:27am  
I'm not Catholic, but I was starting to like this Pope..... until he called for a single world government under the UN.  The UN is extremely corrupt and ineffective, even more than our own government. 4951
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humblelady Active Indicator LED Icon
~ 8 years ago   Sep 2, '15 11:38am  
You don't have to go to a man for forgiveness. You go directly to God through Jesus. That's truth. Not being disrespectful to others beliefs but that is the word of God. 4951
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humblelady Active Indicator LED Icon
~ 8 years ago   Sep 2, '15 11:42am  
I don't trust the pope. I believe he is wanting a one world government and a one world religion. The bible (revelation) is unfolding right before our eyes. 4951
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ProblemAgain Active Indicator LED Icon 10
~ 8 years ago   Sep 2, '15 11:45am  
4951
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Sniper12 Active Indicator LED Icon 12
~ 8 years ago   Sep 2, '15 3:50pm  
Jesus gives the keys to St. Peter telling him that what he binds on earth will be bound in heaven. Jesus also says in another Gospel the that you forgiven are forgiven and those you hold bound are held bound. Not everything we believe is in the Bible. The Bible says nothing about sola scriptura 4951
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Chrisinkingwood Active Indicator LED Icon 8
~ 8 years ago   Sep 2, '15 5:26pm  
Don't shoot me folks I'm just the messenger here. I was a RC until I was 19 or so when I decided I was done with the whole thing. Took my parents a while to accept it. Obviously there is a world of difference in beliefs between RCs and Protestants. The big split when Martin Luther went rogue was at a time when the RC was pretty corrupt. Personally while no longer a RC I like this pope. He bucks traditions and I'm all for that! The following is from www.catholic.com/tra cts/papal-infallibil ity  Papal InfallibilityThe Catholic Church’s teaching on papal infallibility is one which is
generally misunderstood by those outside the Church. In particular,
Fundamentalists and other "Bible Christians" often confuse the charism
of papal "infallibility" with "impeccability." They imagine Catholics
believe the pope cannot sin. Others, who avoid this elementary blunder,
think the pope relies on some sort of amulet or magical incantation when
an infallible definition is due. 
Given these common misapprehensions regarding the basic tenets of
papal infallibility, it is necessary to explain exactly what
infallibility is not. Infallibility is not the absence of sin. Nor is it
a charism that belongs only to the pope. Indeed, infallibility also
belongs to the body of bishops as a whole, when, in doctrinal unity with
the pope, they solemnly teach a doctrine as true. We have this from
Jesus himself, who promised the apostles and their successors the
bishops, the magisterium of the Church: "He who hears you hears me"
(Luke 10:16), and "Whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven"
(Matt. 18:18). Infallibility belongs in a special way to the pope as head of the
bishops (Matt. 16:17–19; John 21:15–17). As Vatican II remarked, it is a
charism the pope "enjoys in virtue of his office, when, as the supreme
shepherd and teacher of all the faithful, who confirms his brethren in
their faith (Luke 22:32), he proclaims by a definitive act some doctrine
of faith or morals. Therefore his definitions, of themselves, and not
from the consent of the Church, are justly held irreformable, for they
are pronounced with the assistance of the Holy Spirit, an assistance
promised to him in blessed Peter." 
The infallibility of the pope is not a doctrine that suddenly
appeared in Church teaching; rather, it is a doctrine which was implicit
in the early Church. It is only our understanding of infallibility
which has developed and been more clearly understood over time. In fact,
the doctrine of infallibility is implicit in these Petrine texts: John
21:15–17 ("Feed my sheep . . . "), Luke 22:32 ("I have prayed for you
that your faith may not fail"), and Matthew 16:18 ("You are Peter . . .
"). Your mileage may vary! 4951
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